By Paul SullivanThe Cubs have fired the opening salvo in a dispute against a local casino, erecting two sign boards in the back of the left-field bleachers at Wrigley Field.
The potential signage would obscure a prominent casino ad in most TV camera shots.
The two large, green, wooden sign boards were erected in the bleachers last week without fanfare. There is no advertising on them, but they're expected to be ready for the 2010 season.
"The signage is in place as we evaluate marketing opportunities," Cubs spokesman Peter Chase said. "Given our partnerships and agreements with the other rooftops, that particular location in the bleachers would work out."
A likely sponsor is Bud Light, which bought naming rights to the bleachers during the reconstruction project before the 2006 season. The only building directly affected by the sign is the one at the corner of Sheffield and Kenmore Avenues, commonly referred to as the "Budweiser building" after the beer company that advertised on its roof for years.
Photo: Two large, green sign boards have been installed at the rear of the left-field bleachers at Wrigley Field. (Michael Tercha/Tribune)
Rooftop owner Tom Gramatis bought the building for $8.4 million in June
of 2008, and placed a brown tarp over the Budweiser sign shortly before
the 2008 playoffs, claiming Anheuser-Busch was late with its payment. A
Cook County judge later ordered the removal of the tarp before the
playoffs, but Gramatis eventually sold the rights to the Horseshoe
Casino, which placed its ad on the roof last April.
While the Cubs weren't happy with the Horseshoe Casino ad, there was nothing they could do to prevent it from dominating the left-center field vista of Wrigley Field. But new chairman Tom Ricketts decided it was time to take action, with a plan to block out the building during Cubs telecasts and have their own sponsor in its place.
Chase didn't directly refer to the casino ad, but said the Cubs are "looking to protect our corporate partner family who invest their resources with us to be our official sponsors. It's important that we protect our brand in the marketplace, protect the value of our corporate partners and protect against anyone trying to ambush our brand."
Gramatis was unavailable for comment.
The only signage currently in view in the bleachers are the Under Armour ads on the outfield doors. Budweiser previously bought ad space under the center field scoreboard during the 1980's.
Upon taking over the Cubs, Ricketts pointed to Boston's revamping of Fenway Park, which included more ad signage in the ballpark.
"There are things that make Wrigley different from Fenway, that we have to be respectful of as we go through and think of the things we're going to do with our stadium," he told the Tribune. "And I think the key is, we definitely see what they've accomplished and we'd like to emulate some of that success."
While the Cubs weren't happy with the Horseshoe Casino ad, there was nothing they could do to prevent it from dominating the left-center field vista of Wrigley Field. But new chairman Tom Ricketts decided it was time to take action, with a plan to block out the building during Cubs telecasts and have their own sponsor in its place.
Chase didn't directly refer to the casino ad, but said the Cubs are "looking to protect our corporate partner family who invest their resources with us to be our official sponsors. It's important that we protect our brand in the marketplace, protect the value of our corporate partners and protect against anyone trying to ambush our brand."
Gramatis was unavailable for comment.
The only signage currently in view in the bleachers are the Under Armour ads on the outfield doors. Budweiser previously bought ad space under the center field scoreboard during the 1980's.
Upon taking over the Cubs, Ricketts pointed to Boston's revamping of Fenway Park, which included more ad signage in the ballpark.
"There are things that make Wrigley different from Fenway, that we have to be respectful of as we go through and think of the things we're going to do with our stadium," he told the Tribune. "And I think the key is, we definitely see what they've accomplished and we'd like to emulate some of that success."
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DO YOU HAVE ANY HISTORY ABOUT THIS HOUSE AT3701 KENMORE
AVE FORMERLY CALLED THE BUDWEISER HOUSE.IAM INTERESTED
INTHIS HOUSE AS MY GRAND PARENTS OWNED IT AND LIVED
THERE FROM THE EARLY 1890S TILL THE 1920S
Chase T. on November 25, 2009 10:18 PM
The 3800 block of the side-street that is usually called Kenmore Ave. is Alta Vista Tr. It's a historic block called Alta Vista Terrace, named after a street of row-houses in London. The block was originally build all as a single development based on the concept of the original London street.
***
This is simply not true. Alta Vista is between Grace and Byron, a full block north of Waveland. Kenmore is one street east of Alta Vista. Alta Vista is not a renamed portion of Kenmore.
I don't understand why Cub fans are trying to compare "selling out" with the White Sox. Weird stuff. I thought the Cubbies were all about tradition and keeping their team in the 18th Century... No lights was all about doing things like they did in 1881. So the Sox start their games at 7:11... it isn't an eye sore and they never claimed to be non capitalists. The Cub's purity will be breached in no time. There will be beer commercials on big screen monitors on the outfield walls soon and the Cub's fans will still want to point at the Sox game starting times. Amazing.
The 3800 block of the side-street that is usually called Kenmore Ave. is Alta Vista Tr. It's a historic block called Alta Vista Terrace, named after a street of row-houses in London. The block was originally build all as a single development based on the concept of the original London street.
Ricketts has said he is going to renovate the restrooms and do some other short-term work on the concourse to improve the facilities in advance of a more permanent renovation (hopefully in time for its 100th anniversary in 2014). It does take money and ad revenue is one way to pay for it, so I understand why they made the move they did. That said, hopefully this is just a negotiating ploy and they reach an amicable resolution with Gramatis so that AB InvBev can put their ad back and the tacked-on signboard can come down. There really is no way I can think of to design the board so that it doesn't look tacked on. That's my main aesthetic concern. I'm sure AB InBev isn't thrilled about MillerCoors' billboard where the old Torco sign was, either, which raises my concern about another tacked-on signboard over there.
What I want to read is about the Cubs signing and trading for good players. Also I want to know when are they going to remodel the washrooms at wrigley field.
The dispute is not with Horseshoe, it is with the owner of that building. He played hardball with A-B a few years ago and now he is getting payback, via the Cubs. Now that his roof is blocked Horseshoe should be looking to renegotiate their deal with him. Karma- its a bitch.
Keep adding more signs. Soon it will look as beautiful as Shea Stadium. Yuck!
I'm glad the new regime is concentrating on what's important - advertising outside the park. Trying to put a REAL winner on the field must come somewhere down the road.
Rumor is Gramatis hosed over everyone who had involvement with that rooftop prior to his acquisition. Karma is a b-.
Gramatis is a crook. Part of the Chicago machine and one of Giannoulias' puppet masters.
I'm a "jack@ss", but you're the one going crazy over stuff that I did not say. First off, i was pointing out how Sox fans are bashing the Cubs despite the fact that they root for a team that has sold out. I am not saying anything against the White Sox for selling out. If they want to squeeze every dollar out of every ad campaign they can generate, more power to them. I'm just against their fans for bashing to Cubs while they go to U.S. Cellular Field for a 7-11 start time, like they don't even realize that their team has been doing it for years! But of course a Cubs fan even mentioning the Sox will cause most Sox fans to freak out, so I'm not surprised at your reaction.
Maybe the Cubs haven't put a winning team on the field in quite some time (even though they did have a winning record each of the last three seasons), but that has nothing to do with what their ad department is doing in their day-to-day work. When the Sox changed their park's name from Comiskey to U.S. Cellular Field and when they changed all of their starting times to 7-11, was Kenny Williams not allowed to make any moves? Of course not, because the ad department works independently of the GM and what the ad department does has absolutely no effect on player and personnel decisions. A major league ballclub can look to make moves on the field and find ways to generate ad revenue at the same time, believe it or not!
And I am sorry for mentioning the White Sox. I know how much it angers Sox fans for a Cubs fan to mention them. It's even worse when the Cubs fan is right. The White Sox did sell out, not that that's a bad thing. But of course a dumb Sox fan like yourself just sees big bad Cubs fan talking about his Sox, and then it's time to break out the childish insults and to go ranting about things that I didn't even say. I've had many smart and interesting conversations and arguments with Sox fans. Unfortunately, this one is not one of them. Make sure you read next time and actually pick out the things that I said, instead of just jump to conclusions like you did. Better luck next time. Jack@ss out!
Ridiculous......the only news I want out of Wrigley is the signing of really good ballplayers.Part of the charm of Wrigley IS the buildings(and signs) across the street.
PLEASE do not turn Wrigley into Fenway. Fenway is a great park, but way too much advertising.
Doug...you're a jack@ss.
You talk about the Sox selling out and starting games at 7:11 and for playing in US Cellular, but then you said it would be ok for Ronnie to run around advertising for Walgreens. And what's this non-sense about "all the idiots who are saying the Cubs are more concerned with this than with puting a winning team on the field, you do know they can do both at once, right?" Ummm....maybe you're the idiot cause I'm pretty sure the Cubs have not put a winning team on the field in quite some time.
I love it when people put their foot in their mouth while stating their case...good job Doug, keep cheering on that winning team!!
swm on November 23, 2009 1:38 PM
Those billboards stand out. Hope the Ball Park doesn't experience multimillion dollar lawsuits, if they come down on the crowd in a wind storm. Looks like they're just asking for trouble, but that's what greed breeds.
------------------------------------
Yes, because those boards were put up using the same stuff that people use to put up yard sale signs and lost dog signs on the light polls around your neighborhood. Wow, it's like an idiot convention on here today. I don't know what's worse: this guy, all the people who think the Cubs are only able to do one thing at a time, or the White Sox fans who would sign on to bash the Cubs even if the story was Aramis Ramirez saves 100 children from burning school yet still deny that they obsess over the Cubs.
Good post, DallasP1 -- I concur!
The questions at the core of this dispute are: was A-B late with the payment to the rooftop owner; how late; how much due; did both parties try their best to settle the dispute.
I don't have these facts. I may not know other things either. Was Gramatis upset at A-B...or also the Cubs, perhaps about something else? Were the Cubs acting out against Gramatis over something else and perhaps over-protecting A-B in the process?
The rest of this--much of it transparent power-play strategy--followed the core dispute. Get to the root, and the rest figures to go away
edwoodjr on November 23, 2009 12:35 PM
What if they put up a ballpark across the street and installed a winning team?
Southside_Carlo on November 23, 2009 12:17 PM
Typical Cubs
More worried about a damn sign and money than the performance of the team.
Losers!
**********************
LOLOLOLOL Great posts!! AND SO TRUE!!!!!
PLEASE...give me a break!!!! What are the Cubs trying to prove by blocking a casino sign????? ANY TIME you watch one of their games on the road NEAR any type of casino - there are ads for whatever casino is there!!!
I like the addition of the boards, but they are in the wrong place. Wrigley is a dump. It should be boarded up and condemned.
Uh huh. Put up some cheap boards. Classy.
Guess that means the Cubs organization can't get any money out of the casino, huh? LOL. God.
If I recall, doesnt Horseshoe Casino advertise with the Cubs??? Ive seen their image on the scoreboard and have heard them over the PA system at Wrigley....so why not go to Horseshoe and negotiate some sort of partnership that includes or doesnt include that rooftop?!??
i vote for more boards all over wrigley! keep putting up those boards...block out the people across the street, too.
they can board up the entire place, starting with the entrances. thank you.
sincerely
chairman of the bored
Those billboards stand out. Hope the Ball Park doesn't experience multimillion dollar lawsuits, if they come down on the crowd in a wind storm. Looks like they're just asking for trouble, but that's what greed breeds.
Well horseshoe casino should not serve any beer products of foreign owned A.B........ It's only a ploy to extort more money from the casino........The CUBS AND A.B HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO............WHY DON'T TOM RICKETT'S AND NOT HIS FLUNKY CRANE KENEDDY GO OVER TO TOMMY G...AND MAKE A DEAL THAT WOULD SERVE THEM BOTH.... OR BUY HIM OUT.... OR BE PARTNERS WITH PERCENTAGE..... THE ART OF THE DEAL IS NEGOTIATION.............LET BOTH PARTIES BE GREEDY TOGETHER..............MAYBE SWITCH IT TO DIGITAL BOARD TOO................BY THE WAY RICKETTS PR FIRM REPRESENTS HORSESHOE CASINO.... TREAT YOUR CUSTOMERS BETTER.....
Gramatis is a piece of scum and thumbs up to the Cubs for taking action against him! Yes, I know that it was not always the Budweiser house, but for years it has been an integral part of the storied tradition of Wrigley Field. A-B has been a big sponsor of baseball and the Cubs for years. Gramatis screwed A-B on their contract without notice, because he cares nothing about tradition. By the way, I have nothing against gambling, but baseball has traditionally been against the mixture of gambling and baseball beginning with the 1919 Black Sox situation. Also, it has had a problem with incidents like when the Mick and Willie were hired to promote a casino. It is a wonder that this nit wit did not put up some thing worse than he did. Those without conscience, who screw everybody around to make their ill gained money; it sometimes comes back to bite them! Way to go Cubs!
First off, why are Sox fans so interested in this story? And I hope those idiots realize that their team plays at U.S. Cellular Field and starts all of their night home games at 7:11 pm due to an agreement with 7-11. So if anyone knows how to sell out, it's the White Sox.
Second, to all the idiots who are saying the Cubs are more concerned with this than with puting a winning team on the field, you do know they can do both at once, right? You see, the Cubs have this thing called an ad department, which is in charge of just one thing: to find ways to create ad revenue for the team. That way they can do their job at the same time that Jim Hendry can do his job of signing and trading players. Or would you rather have Tom Ricketts issue a company-wide order to stop all work until Jim Hendry has the Cubs roster set? I mean, if any of you were in charge of running a team, it would be a total disaster!
And finally, I don't care if they get Ronnie Woo Woo to run around the field in between innings waving a Walgreens flag while yelling "Go to, Woo! Walgreens, Woo!" If it can generate money to put back into the team and increase our chances of winning, then have at it!
WELL IF THEY GOT TO PAY THEN EVERY BILLBOARD AROUND WRIGLEY... HEY WHY DON'T THEY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF EVERY BAR AND TAKE A PERCENTAGE.... WHERE DOES IT STOP.... WHY DON'T THEY JUST GET SOME PLAYERS AND BRING A CHAMPIONSHIP TO TOWN...... IF CUBS WANT THE BUILDINGS WHY DON'T THEY OVER PAY FOR THEM LIKE THEY DID FOR THE TEAM.... NO ARGUMENTS WHEN YOU OWN. EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ya know ya gotta make it comfortable for the drunk morons who don't pay attention to the game and their girlfriends who know even less than their companions. They'll show up regardless of the circus on the field.
Remember it's more about how many butts and butt-heads are in the seats and to heck with having a real team.
What if they put up a ballpark across the street and installed a winning team?
Typical Cubs
More worried about a damn sign and money than the performance of the team.
Losers!
KPO'M on November 23, 2009 9:34 AM
Go away, Sox fans, this isn't about you. Your ballpark is the last of the cookie cutter concrete donuts that every other city is tearing down and replacing with ballparks that try to recreate the charm that Wrigley and Fenway already have. It is a legitimate question to ask how far the new owners want to go to remodel the ballpark,
Yeah, KPO'M and you gotta love those bathrooms and the fine food they serve in your ballpark. And the rats. And most importantly the quality of play on the field. What's it been now? 102 years?
And those plywood boards put up by the Ricketts? They look wonderful. Blends in really nice with the rest of the ballpark. I'm surprised they weren't put up when the bleachers were originally built.
Now if the rooftop owner is really looking to one up Ricketts, he would put up a Jumbo-tron on his roof !
RE: Tom
Your comment about comparing apples to oranges is right on. Cubs fans and Sox fans will never agree, will always think their respective team is better. The problem is idiots who take this too seriously. Some people prefer the Sox, some people prefer the Cubs. So, come on. It's a game. It isn't life and there is more important things to life than which team does better except during the 6 games we play against each other during the season.
Cubs should've never entered into any kind of 'partnership' with the rooftop owners. The Cubs should've made it impossoble to see the field - end of all problems. Seems like every season, court battles with this one or that one. I still can't figure out how in God's name, these building owners think they have a right to sell a product that doesn't BELONG to them? It's NOT a right - before it got crazy with the rooftops, the Cubs tolerated it. But, a RIGHT to sell someone else's product? That's taking free enterprize a bit too far. Just an opinion from someone who grew up across the street from the ballpark and spent his entire youth IN that park.
Stupid move.
First big summer storm knocks the thing down.
Its not called windy city for nothing.
Thanks.
J.S.
With the state of TV technology, they could just put an overlay over the casino ad and put in their own ad. Its like what they do with football field graphics. The only thing a physical barrier in the park is going to do is screw up the enjoyment of the people in the stadium.
I'll support whatever the Cubs need to do to WIN THE WS.
GO CUBBIES!!!
Here to help
Nada
Irony of all ironies. In the late 1950's and into the 1960's, the rooftop of the building in question was used to advertise a local business - RICKETT'S RESTAURANT!
It's not a free speech issue. Cubs want money from their sponsors (Bud). Gramatis wants money from his sponsor (Casino). Not exactly a Thomas Jefferson worthy issue.
The correct address of this building would be 3701 N Kenmore, at the intersection of Kenmore and Waveland, not Sheffield.
I use to live on Kenmore and I never heard it called Alta Vista.
Tom says:
"Laughing Gravy - you're an idiot. Yet another dumb argument. Let's argue about something neither of us can control, like the stadiums the teams play in."
You got me there, Mr. Spock. I can't argue with logic like that.
By the way, who'd you steal that "you're an idiot" zinger from - Dorothy Parker?
Funny that Rickett's PR/ad firm, Res Publican Group, also represents Horseshoe Casino.
You can bet they're having client loyalty issues today.
New owners...same old B.S. What ever happened to Freedom of speech or free enterprise? We want ot protect our blah,blah,blah....
The address is 3701 N. Kenmore. And it is the corner of Kenmore and Waveland. Such a small detail. The Trib often gets this small detail wrong whether they are too lazy or ignorant...
So what's important is the Cubs as "brand". What say you, those who bleed Cubbie blue, stuck with the loveable losers, and who's hope will bloom again in Spring, like so much ivy?
Laughing Gravy - you're an idiot. Yet another dumb argument. Let's argue about something neither of us can control, like the stadiums the teams play in.
Excellent move Mr. Ricketts!
Gramatis has been crying boo-hoo ever since he bought all those rooftops saying its more expensive to make money than the other 10 odd owners and hasn't been paying his share of the 17% of the rooftop revenues.
Tom:
1. Wrigley Field *is* better than the soulless concrete slab the White Sox play in.
2. Oranges are better than apples.
The whole neighborhood looks like shit anyway, what's one more sign? Wasn't there an issue about landmark status when they buil over the sidewalks? Now they erect 2 huge monoliths and it goes on without approval. I'm starting to think that the White Sox fans are right, it is like one large urninal- tear it down build it out in the lake amnd let boats and helicopters circle it with as many signs as they can - maybe if they field a winner someday they can do it right
Ned and JJ, whatever the name of the street, Kenmore or Alta Vista, it does NOT intersect with Sheffield, which is a parallel street. The Trib IS wrong.
Budweiser pays the Cubs millions every year for advertising. Tom Gramatis/Horseshoe Casino pays them nothing. Taking care of your best customers, that's not a Cubs thing, that's a good business thing.
This isn't a Cubs vs. Sox debate. No one's stadium is better than the other, no one's team is better than the other. It is such a stupid debate that I can't stand, and the people that have dumb arguments are the people that ruin Chicago baseball for me. I went to one Cubs/Sox game and I'll never go to one ever again. I am so tired of it. The fighting and arguing gets you nowhere. The ammunition people use to fuel the argument is so childish!
Cubs fans - just because the Sox threw a game almost a hundred years ago, that doesn't mean they're bad sportsmen today.
Sox fans - Sure, it's been a while since the Cubs won a World Series. Ya know what? Wrigley doesn't have a problem filling their stadium. Not saying that the Sox have that issue, just stating a fact.
You might as well argue that the apple is better than the orange!
Building owner should have sold the advertising rights to say Cubs Fans Are Losers
and the Team Sucks!
What's the difference between a Beer Ad vs Casino Ad, sort of the same place when you look at the moral compass. Cubs just looking for another opportunity of dipping into someone pocket, its always about money. They need to worry about fixing the team not invest in the marketing of "Lovable Losers". Real CUBS fans want a WINNING TEAM!
CUBS SUCK! WHO CARES.
File the address dispute under I saw it on the internet so it must be true...mapquest shows the street as kenmore as does my paper 6 county map i use for traveling around the city. You can also use google street view and clearly see the street sign, that street is kenmore, it would appear the map version of google has it mislabeld. N Alta Vista is the tiny little half black street that is one block north and a little bit west of kenmore & Waveland...Believe it or not, sometimes google is wrong.
http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Chicago&state=IL&address=W+Waveland+Ave+%26+N+Kenmore+Ave&zipcode=60613&country=US&latitude=41.94901&longitude=-87.65553&geocode=INTERSECTION
The new owners give me the creeps. Stepford Wivesish. Heebie Jeebies!!!
Go away, Sox fans, this isn't about you. Your ballpark is the last of the cookie cutter concrete donuts that every other city is tearing down and replacing with ballparks that try to recreate the charm that Wrigley and Fenway already have. It is a legitimate question to ask how far the new owners want to go to remodel the ballpark,
That building is clearly at the intersection of Waveland and the street sometimes called Kenmore. That block of Kenmore is actually called N Alta Vista Terrace for some reason. Look at the map before you ridicule the Trib editorial staff....they screw up enough things on their own that they shouldn't need to take any heat when they get something right.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
Quote "the Cubs are "looking to protect our corporate partner family who invest their resources with us to be our official sponsors. It's important that we protect our brand in the marketplace, protect the value of our corporate partners and protect against anyone trying to ambush our brand."
????.............Ummmm.......... Nah.......
What's important is that the Cubs put a world series winning product on THE FIELD.........something they have failed to do for over a century and counting.
You know what? I'm glad. The casino advertisements are getting out of hand. Damn near every commercial break on the radio these days has an ad for a casino, and I'm getting a little sick of them. It's a little unfair for them to advertise "HEY! YOU COULD WIN MILLIONS!" when it's mostly BS.
It's said that gambling is an addiction. Then it should be treated like other addicting subjects (remember what product is no longer allowed on race cars?) and controlled a bit.
I guess what I'm saying is I like the direction the Cubs have taken here.
Another great job of editing by the Trubune staff. To bad there is no such intersection of Kenmore and Sheffield. If I were the Budweiser building I would be located on the corner of Kenmore and WAVELAND. No wonder the Trib had to sell the Cubs, they don't even know where Wrigley is located.
"It's important that we protect our brand in the marketplace, protect the value of our corporate partners and protect against anyone trying to ambush our brand."
God, I love baseball talk. Who is he quoting here - Gehrig? McGraw? Berra?
Re: HA!
You're just jealous because we had the opportunity to throw a world a Championship after you last won one. :)
Signs, signs, everywhere is signs. Blocking out the scenery, breaking my mind.
Signs, signs, everywhere is signs. Block out the scenery, breaking my mind.
So now the Cubs are my moral compass? That's enough! I'm out!
Soxfun -
Thanks for the advice. You sure have a solid organization down there in the projects. The only team in professional sports to cheat and throw a championship. Truly inspirational.
Maybe someday the Cubs can build an ugly stadium in the most disgusting part of the city and hope that 10-15,000 of the city's lowest class citizens can show up in their jean shorts, tank tops and mullets.
Oh sweet, more advertising polution in Wrigley Field. It really helps me decide which products to buy.
That would be nice if they try and make it look like every other garbage stadium in baseball.
101 years, billy goat, bartman, go sox, etc. hey, it's an article about the cubs, someone had to get the ball rolling.
This probably wont get posted here because it`s honest but i may as well try.
KPOM, I understand your point. Why in the world would you want a Nice, Clean, Fun park when you can have Wrigley. I mean if the Cubs turned it into the "Cell North" there would be Two Major League BallParks in this Great City. Then and ONLY then could they work on getting Two Major League Teams.
Lets be honest here for a minute though,atleast the Cubs still have their priorities straight. Worry about the rooftops, Signs etc and THEN when you get done with all of that (100 Years) try and win a Championship. But Hey....... there is always Wrigley field for the 20,000 REAL Cub fans to bring your out of town guests for a day of Loveable losing, pee smelling, Beer drinking, yuppified Vomiting fun. Oh and then when your done with all that you can go to the Bars in the "Hood". Dont forget though, You MUST PEE on the Neighbors of the Park or at the very least their homes.
As long as the Cubs WIN The World Series you can decorate Wrigley like a Hallmark Christmas Card....JUST WIN!!
The only building directly affected by the sign is the one at the corner of Sheffield and Kenmore Avenues
Is corner this possible?
Another logical spot is in front of the Miller Lite billboard where the Torco sign used to be. My concern here is that they are going to load up the ballpark with advertising, start playing hard rock intros for every player, and turn it into US Cellular North, and still not produce a World Series winner.