John Salmons and Taj Gibson display the look of defeat. (Nuccio DiNuzzo / Tribune)
This needs to be made clear first: Vinny Del Negro has a guaranteed year following this season on his three-year contract and there is no word from anybody in the organization that a coaching change is imminent.
But losses like the one that happened Saturday night at the United Center always give pause. In fact, the Raptors' 110-78 shellacking of the Bulls isn't that dissimilar from the 116-98 pasting Houston placed on the Bulls on Dec. 22, 2007 -- two days before John Paxson fired Scott Skiles.
And, yes, Skiles followed Tim Floyd in being fired on Christmas Eve.
The Bulls aren't anywhere close to full strength. Kirk Hinrich and Tyrus Thomas are injured, Joakim Noah got ejected from Saturday's loss and Paxson and general manager Gar Forman handed Del Negro a roster of 13 players that included the injured Jerome James and the aging Lindsey Hunter at season's start.
Let's remember: The 2010 trade deadline and free-agent signing period are just as important as this season.
But seven losses in eight games and six of those losses featuring deficits of 19 points or more suggest a non-competitive team. Del Negro needs to have his full complement of players to be judged fairly. But he is being judged, no matter what, on a daily basis.
That's pro sports.
Del Negro eloquently and passionately addressed the situation late Saturday.
"In a perfect world, of course," Del Negro said, when asked if he needed more effort. "But Jannero (Pargo) is out there limping. I've got Lindsey (Hunter) in a bucket of ice trying to heal his foot. We've got rookies trying to find their way. We don't have the bodies.
"You're going to have days like this. I love the challenge. I love the competition. It makes me sick to perform like that. But are you going to give up or go fight? I'm a fighter. I'm going to battle and do whatever I can to help. And the guys have to do the same."
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Stratmaster...the argument by u was that Gordon was missed because Hinrich was out and with Pargo and Hunter not suffice...so somehow addition by subtraction would do the trick....all things constant from last year (though Hinrich and Luol were hurt last year and Noah was not playing as he is today) so without Gordon and with Hinrich and pargo and hunter in the game we should be winning? Missing Gordon cuz Hinrich is out is inaccurate as last year we played without hinrich and won...and with Hinrich today we are not...and Pargo and Hunter we agree are waste of spot....as for hinrich skills...Gordon not just shooting...but also enabled defenders to not leave him open which is more than we can say for Hinrich today....Obviously Hinrich on point then Dribble Dribble Brick vs Gordon Dribble Dribble SHOT Clutch Money (not always but a lot of cases)....all three dont prove to suffice for the void of Gordon...should have kept Duhon instead of Kirk...and for extra credit do check Hinrich's stats from the Atlanta game....
oh,and adkhanz, you keep saying Pargo and hunter don;t help replace Gordon. Again, there are comprehension problems here. You do understand I have stated over and over that both Pargo and Hunter are wastes of a roster spot, right? You do understand we AGREE on that and yet you keep throwing that in my face like somehow it makes the argument that letting Gordon go was a mistake.
Letting Gordon go was not a mistake. Getting Pargo as your "hot-shot" off the bench was a horrible mistake.
You noticed they started miller? I noticed they lost to New Jersey with Miller starting. Did you also notice Miller only played 18 minutes? So much for your hypothesis. It must have been working swimmingly
I (I didn't see the first half, but if he started and only played 18 minutes, it must have been a bust).
Miller is horrible. As far as his passing, he throws one away for every one of those slick passes he makes. Look at his turnovers versus his assists.
As far as the comparisons, what year did Willis Reed and Wes Unseld play basketball? ALL the players were slow back then compared to now..well, unless you are comparing them to Miller. Shaq was not slow with his moves, and is still quicker with his moves than Miller is. He isn't going to run a 40 yard dash but when he gets the ball near the paint his moves are quicker. Miller takes 4 seconds to pivot.
Adkhanz, you still didn't answer my question, name one basketball skill other than shooting where Gordon is better than Hinrich. You didn't answer because there aren't any.
S---Master, Gee, I guess the professional coaching staff decided I was right and you knew nothing. I just noticed they started Miller tonight. Next time you deride people on here, ask yourself, " Am I doing it because I really know nothing and it is the only way to make me feel like I know something and feel like I have some self esteem?"
S master
Offense in the pros is about spacing and ball movement. The Bulls have no ball movement or spacing without Miller on the court. Miller is the only reasonable offensive shot option and the best passer, in the present rotation. It is hardly a knock to say he is slow. Z is slow. Shaq is slow. Arvydas Sabonis was slow.
Willis Reed was slow.
Wes Unseld was slow.
They served their roles.
But "laugha while you can...."
Stratmaster....with Pargo, hunter, and Hinrich (which you say we miss, well yeah he is one of eight on Vinnie's rotation)...the three combined, we are still getting blown out....without them last year (Hinrich was hurt last year too) with Gordon on the team we were not getting blown out like this all the time...Gordon was clutch shot most of the time at 20 points per game which is a void not made up by the stooges you mention...60 mil....that is a financial issue and does not merrit your comparison nor say that we are a better team today without BG...hopefully we can let this issue rest now...but thanks for trying to comprehend what you are saying and not saying....priceless...
adkhanz, where did I compare Gordon with either of them? Let me dumb it down a little since comprehension doesn't seem to be your strong point. I basically implied that we miss Gordon with Hinrich out because anyone would be better than Pargo and hunter, but we aren't paying Pargo 60 million to back-up our back-up like Ben wanted. Now if you want a comparison, Hinrich is a much better all-around player than Gordon. Gordon's skills exceed Hinrich's in exactly one category. Shooting. Want to argue that? Name me one thing Gordon does better than Hinrich (on the basketball court please, this is a family web-site) other than shooting skill, and I will even include shot selection in that.
These boards are so FREAKIN LAME anymore I can't stand it. I got to go blow my nose now. I will blow out more common sense than most Gordon posts on here combined have to start with. Geesh.
Stratmaster...you are comparing Hirich and Pargo with Gordon...lol...last i checked...combined together aren't suffice for the void of points...so priceless....
NadaSurf2009 aka my referent "Mensa"
"what success" implies no success? (by your statements)? If success is winning championships then your perception of reality differs quite a bit from, well, reality...all in all we were in the middle of the pack with him and without much help...he was an integral part of that...
BG = helping win ballgames, floor spacing, taking pressure of others, offense (note defense not implied)...clutch shooting go to guy...playoffs (some better than others)...heat series....celtics...snow...winter....sunshine...etc...but you get the point....unless you have some keen input as to "why we are NOT a better team with him"....
About what I expected "Fire everyone" "We miss Gordon".
Of course they miss Gordon with Hinrich hurt. They miss any decent freakin' Guard in the NBA when the two guys on the court are Pargo and Hunter. But you don't pay a guy 60 million bucks just in case your backup PG gets hurt.
It looks like ATLdre is the only other poster left with any real reason or logic behind his posts, and he is missing from the board.
Jeff, I do understand your pain though. Paying money to see that game had to make you feel like you had been robbed at gunpoint.
Nada, I have to disagree with your favorite line though. Mine is the one that says to fix the offense play Brad Miller at least 34 minutes a game. Miller is horrible, horribly slow, and would collapse from exhaustion if he played close to 30 minutes every night. The guy takes 4 seconds to pivot.
It appears Del Negro was hired because the Bulls were hoping for a Mike D'Antoni clone. Its palpable this is not what the Bulls anticipated. Del Negro is no clone of D'Antoni. Del Negro's lack of competitiveness was noticeable when he bounced around between the NBA and Europe.
One item that's apparent in this Bulls team is its lack of competitiveness. Look at the two losses this weekend. One team was doing the victory dance during the game, and in the other game with a less worthy opponent, the opponent's guard put the ball under his arm and stopped to tie his shoe. No Bull dared to attack the ball, both clear signs of Del Negro.
This is my favorite line of all your dumb comments, and of course is comes from one of the top Mensa guys, Adkanz--"Gordon was an integral part of the last three season and a major part of the bulls success"
What success?
is it vinnies fault that he was handed a team made up of lamb, chopped beef and one piece of steak? did he sign the players? did he do the research for the players? no, he just mis-manages the game around them. d rose hurt second season. sounds lik mj potential to me. yes they are still a couple coaches and a few players away from true second round potential. lets see the world ends in 2012 and it will take that long for the bulls to improve. with their luck the world will end before that season concludes.
Greg H....not saying we should dwell on BG or live in the past...but acknowledgment that we would have been a better team with him...as for BG and pistons...again different team different scenario...BG is just one member of the Pistons given addtional pieces would as a team produce...no one is expecting the piston just with BG to win championships....just the acknowlegement that we made a mistake of not retaining BG...with our current team including BG we would be a better team...it was managements choice was not retaining him....signing Contract of hinrich and luol....breaks my heart to see us stink this bad....
There is one key to the Bulls having an offense. Miller needs to play at least 34 minutes a game. He spreads the defense. He creates open shots for teammates. He is one of the better pasing Bigs in the league. He has a better 19 foot shot than almost every Big in the league. He opens up the lane for Rose.
Forget Ben Gordon. Living in the past does not solve the problems of the present. The Pistons aren't exactly tearing up the league. If Foreman is making the decision to play with so few bodies, then he should be fired. Bring back Derrick Byars at the least to give them another body and see what he can do in the regular season. I'm not sure it matters though. It's taken a long time, but I really am not that interested in watching the Bulls at this point. Why watch a team that does not want to play? I'm sure there are many more people like me. I don't think the personnel is bad enough talent-wise to give up on the season, but they certainly are playing as if they are that bad.
I have, since not retaining Gordon, always adovated that Gordon was our go to guy and more. Most people jumped on my stating that "we are a better team without him, better defensive team, and blah blah blah"...Gordon was an integral part of the last three season and a major part of the bulls success. BG allowed for better spacing (as defender could not leave him open), which allowed:
Derrick rose to operate in the paint and take presure of Derrick
Salmons to shoot threes or drive to the rim,
Tyrus to roam the paint, block shots, put backs, mid jumper, rebound
Noah, (improved this year) to rebound, block and together with Tyrus protect the paint...
Hinrich to control the second unit when Derrick was on the bench....Gordon's defense is always called out as if defense was laid on a 6'0 guard....Defense is a team concept....Today, with Gordon and Luol back at full strength...we would be a better team with a better record...not championship team, but a better team....our team has regressed and one FA signing along with an inept Coach will not make us any better....BTW...dont anticipate big time FA lining up to be part of this organization....
OH GUYS !THERE IS SOMETHING FUNNY AROUND HERE ! NOBODY WANT TO SAY THAT WE MISS GORDON ! YOU'RE STUPID ! REMENBER MOST OF YOU AGREED TO DO NOT RESIGN GORDON ! AND TODAY YOU'RE INCAPABLE TO REGOGNIZE THAT YOU THOUGHT WRONG !!
NOW WHO CAN TELL US THAT WE DON'T MISS GORDON ! A GREAT PLAYER, THERE IS ONLY 15 PLAYER IN NBA WHO CAN POST 20 POINT PER GAMER AND MORE. WE HAD ONE, HIS WAS HOT, ALWAYS HEALTHY, ALWAYS PRESENT, GORDON WAS OUR FOURTH QUARTER GUY WHO COULD CHANGE THE GAME ISSUE WHEN HE GET IN ! YOU LET HIM GO OFF JUST BECAUSE HE DOESN't DEFEND LIKE HOWARD, LOL. YOU THOUGHT JOHN SALMONS WAS A BETTER DEFENDER,IF HE WERE WE WOULD HAVE NOT LOST LIKE WE DID YESTERDAY !!
FANS WHO DON'T LIKE GORDON, I SAID YOU'RE THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD !!!!!
YOU WRITE COMMENTS AND YOU ARE ASHAMED TO SAY THAT WE MISS GORDON !! YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT IT ON VINNY. YOU'RE CRAPS, FREAK, SILLY, IDIOT !! FORGOT ABOUT 2010 PLAN , WE'RE GONNA BE LIKE NEW JERSEY NEXT YEAR !
NOW WHERE ARE ALL THE JOURNALIST WHO USED TO SAY THAT WE GONNA BE BETTER WIHOUT GORDON ! WHERE ARE THEM !!
OH GUYS !THERE IS SOMETHING FUNNY AROUND HERE ! NOBODY WANT TO SAY THAT WE MISS GORDON ! YOU'RE STUPID ! REMENBER MOST OF YOU AGREED TO DO NOT RESIGN GORDON ! AND TODAY YOU'RE INCAPABLE TO REGOGNIZE THAT YOU THOUGHT WRONG !!
NOW WHO CAN TELL US THAT WE DON'T MISS GORDON ! A GREAT PLAYER, THERE IS ONLY 15 PLAYER IN NBA WHO CAN POST 20 POINT PER GAMER AND MORE. WE HAD ONE, HIS WAS HOT, ALWAYS HEALTHY, ALWAYS PRESENT, GORDON WAS OUR FOURTH QUARTER GUY WHO COULD CHANGE THE GAME ISSUE WHEN HE GET IN ! YOU LET HIM GO OFF JUST BECAUSE HE DOESN't DEFEND LIKE HOWARD, LOL. YOU THOUGHT JOHN SALMONS WAS A BETTER DEFENDER,IF HE WERE WE WOULD HAVE NOT LOST LIKE WE DID YESTERDAY !!
FANS WHO DON'T LIKE GORDON, I SAID YOU'RE THE STUPIDEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD !!!!!
YOU WRITE COMMENTS AND YOU ARE ASHAMED TO SAY THAT WE MISS GORDON !! YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT IT ON VINNY. YOU'RE CRAPS, FREAK, SILLY, IDIOT !! FORGOT ABOUT 2010 PLAN , WE'RE GONNA LIKE NEW JERSEY NEXT YEAR !
NOW WHERE ARE ALL THE JOURNALIST WHO USED TO SAY THAT WE GONNA BE BETTER WIHOUT GORDON ! WHERE ARE THEM !!
Vinny and the management are not shown the clas that Bulls need.To much trade talking is going on at Bulls.Remember start of the las season...Kobi B ??!!! now Tomas ??!!there are so many players that may be traded but that's what you got at this moment and try to do the best with them.Bulls has long histori of bad traded players : Miler and Artest;Chandler and Curry; Duhan and Gordon and so many others.....try to get a game wining atmosfer not a trading atmosfer..... Vinny is the first one that should go !
Here is a video link to Jarret Jack tying his shoe wile Chicago did nothing. No coach should ever let this happen. This is reason enough to fire Del Negro.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Jack-ties-shoelace-during-live-play-Bulls-watch?urn=nba,206950
Here is a video link to Jarret Jack tying his shoe wile Chicago did nothing. No coach should ever let this happen. This is reason enough to fire Del Negro.
You know, I'd say fire Vinny, but the reality is, it won't solve the problem. Why? Because the players are just as bad as Vinny. Everybody on this team deserves to be fired, including Rose.
I'm sick of everyone making excuses for the point guard (doesn't have a shooter to pass to, his ankle is hurt). The superstars in this league don't wilt when adversity hits, they get better and carry their team with them. As much as it hurts to say, our lucky no. 1 pick isn't that guy. He's a barely above-average guard and that's all he'll ever be.
Here’s Jerry Rein$dorf’s idea of an NBA Championship:
1) At or near the top of the NBA in attendance, ticket prices, revenue, and profitability!
2) Obsessively avoid the luxury tax to the detriment of the roster and the team.
3) Save even more money by hiring a bargain basement coach.
That’s Jerry Reinsdorf’s version of an NBA Championship – The Rein$dorf Ring!
When i was watching bulls-cavs game i thought about Del Negro that he doesn't have ANY idea what to do during the game. He looked lost and didn't do NOTHING to stop Cavs run.
And if you look on the team - he's already lost in their eyes. He should be a man who knows how to deal with problems.
I think it's about a time to make a change. Del Negro won't do anything good for Bulls, and this season isn't lost...yet.
Can Vinny. It's too bad that Flip Saunders isn't available anymore.
Before the season started, I paid $130 for two tickets to see the bulls/raptors game. It was undoubtedly the most embarrassing performance that I have ever witnessed live. I sensed that the game was already over in the first period. I can understand the bulls’ org. charging $60 tickets for 300 level seats if the Bulls were actually respectable but I really believe that each and every bulls fan at the game last night should receive a partial or full refund for the complete lack of effort the bulls roster provided.
well I guess you can kiss not seeing LeBron or Bosh coming here next year. This Bulls team is in shambles. They are getting their butts kicked in. Even when Hinrich or TT comes back. I think they regressed from last year. Sorry to say but Rose is a bit overrated. He's not in the class of CP or Deron yet.
They have no go to guy. And that play where nobody came to try to grab the ball from Jack when he was fixing his shoe (at home even) was a joke. They are a joke to watch!
Unbullable to watch!
From ownership on down, the Bulls have become a perennial loser, do-nothing organization, with a roster of unmotivated mediocrities coached by an inexperienced nobody. I'm sure the top free agents will be lining up for a chance to sign.
I suppose Vinny should also take the approach, that with friends like you K.C, who needs enemies. Just as your article pointed out, opinionless of course, that Vinny is dealing with the same scenario we've already seen numerous times with Bull coaches.
How about finally telling it like it is K.C., the Bulls management has made no attempt at all in over a decade now, to provide the Bull coaches with any real talent. Yet, it's like they keep getting a pass time and time again. It's either Reinsdorf always concerned with a possible luxury tax, this despite having the most profitable franchise in the NBA, or else it's keeping a GM around that seems to miss year after year assessing the draft, or finding any role players which can contribute with any consistency at all. And the one F.A. that he went out on a limb for {Ben Wallace} was an outright disaster. So keep throwing it off on coaches K.C.; however, Vinny is far from being what ails this franchise.
I said when Del Negro(funny how everybody calls him Vinny because it's such an endearing name I guess - nobody called Scott Skiles "Scott" all the time) anyhow I said when Del Negro took Derrick out of that Cleveland game when he was fighting , being aggressive, and coming out of his funk with the last eight games averaging 18 ppg that he wasn't a smart/good enough coach to realize what a pivotal moment that was for Derrick's continued resurgence.
All the cameras kept panning into Rose on the bench as he just sank deeper and deeper back into that disinterested, disengaged malaise. It told the Bulls the team is really not here to compete. Bad karma for Vinny hurting Derrick's(and the teams) game like that. No one on that Bulls bench thought that game was over or wants to see their potential star/bread and butter benched when he's attacking and playing well.
Still, while I think Vinny definitely has not shown he has what it takes at all to be a head coach, especially offensively which is I'm assuming his forte because Oceipka and Meyers are said to be in charge of the defense, what good does it do to fire him and replace him with another nobody. Another Boylan? I don't think so. Would a name coach like Jeff Van Gundy even come in mid season to someone elses mess? More importantly would Reinsdorf pay the money for a name head coach when he wouldn't do so before, and even being one of the most profitable teams in the league abhors the mention of luxury tax i.e. screw the fans. It's sad because if this dead end persists, no 2010 top free agent will come here and Derrick Rose career, I believe will have been set back if not permanently diminished.
Sorry, I guess that was just the press release so that the org didnt look bad for axing him on x-mas eve, but like I told KC, I hope they go for the hat trick.
How come everyone forgets Floyd resigned?????????